SplitMerge wrote Hey Everyone, I don't usually post things on forums, but after spending a few weeks developing an pretty complex application using VWG I feel there are a few things worth chatting about.

Very nicely written.  I felt like that once too...

I would agree and disagree with some of your points.  It's been a while since I've used VWG so if some of my comments are incorrect, by all means, shoot me down and correct me.

>> Stateful objects <<  I agree this is one of the more major points that helps VWG increase productivity. But in many ways, it's also a major hinderance.  Now a website breaks if the server is bounced since the sessions are lost. Scalability is more of an issue.  If a machine hosting a properly designed stateless asp.net website can handle a 10000 users, there's no way it will handle the same number of VWG users.  A VWG website is simple going to impose more load on the server. I don't think VWG could really be used for popular public websites. But there is no way around this, and that's fine.  One just needs to remember that they're getting a huge boost specifically because at the core, they're building a stateful app.

In some ways, I actually think it would be cool to have some concept of a STATELESS VWG app. But this is probably not possible ??

>> Screen Management <<  The issue here is it's a completely different type of screen now, not one that is really seen on the public web.  I've yet to run into a public domain website hosted using VWG. Seems like VWG is best designed for internal business apps that want a WinForm look and feel.   Is VWG's own public website usign VWG? Not any other forum, blog, news, whatever that I've seen is VWG. And yet their monthly newsletter brags of 35000+ apps.  More apps then registered developers ??? And yet the forum only gets a few dozen posts at most any given day all these years?

>> Messaging needs to focus on Enterprise issues << Amen. Well said.

>> The tool need to project stability, reliability and viability. <<  More than one client expressed worry about what happens in 5 years. The reply for many years now is basically always "stay tuned".

>> Third Party partnering <<  Without a doubt.  This is one of the major reasons I finally had to abandon VWG. Clients did not like the VWG controls. Every single one had an issue with one control or another and I was helpless to solve the issue unless I paid money to VWG.


Like Navot, said, it seems like VWG touched you in a good way. Same with me.  But ultimately, after years "trying" to get a VWG product out, I had to drop it. Last client finally called it quits a while back. Without a doubt, productivity is incredibly increased. But what's missing is the ability to finish an app, polish it off. Back then for me, there were just too many little issues and it simply took the VWG team too long to get fixes out. And each upgrade was a stress nightmare, fix one thing, seven other things break. With VWG I felt like I'd climbed Mount Everest at the speed of light, only to slip, fall and die in the last ten feet. And in less time, I was able to get a Silverlight app out. But Silverlight is without a doubt, not any easy path either, there are frustration there too, mostly the async nature of doing calls and the events mechanism.  But it was much much easier to find acceptable controls or even write custom controls.

I had another project come up a while ago and I revisited VWG, but it seemed like little progress has been made on the core VWG and that Gizmox simply continues to expand out from an unpolished core.  Still just 6.4 ??..... Cloud, Cloud, uuggghh. Getting old, VWG always chasing the latest buzzword. That aweful datetime picker that every one of my clients hated. No true VWG 3rd party controls.  Writing a native control not a trivial task. Still reading of lots of problems people running into with framework. Still lots of breaking changes posts.  I just felt that I couldn't afford to spend more time getting back into it to only be let down again. For some people, VWG represents a major risk. Since this project was public facing, I just couldn't take the risk.

However, asp.net, asp.net mvc, jquery, etc, have all come a long a way too and building a good asp.net app today is nowhere as hard as it was 5 years ago when I first tried VWG, all the while, one then still has greater control over their app. When I run into an issue with silverlight, asp.net, jquery, etc, almost always a solution is just a quick google search away.  With VWG, it was spend time building a test case to submit. Or digging through their source code only to find a stubbed out function. There is no help for VWG except this forum.

Don't get me wrong, I still have incredible hopes for VWG. One reason why this is still the ONLY product I don't use that I still keep tabs on.  I really really really wanted to be able to use it again. I have no doubt I would have made very quick progress.  But I just can't afford to fall and die again near the end.

No doubt the reply will be, trust us, the framework is much better now. It's a huge leap of faith......  unfortunately, I'm the one at risk of losing.